Does this sound reasonable to everyone? Is 3 or 4 coats of base and about 5 of clear going to be enough?

Justin

When you shoot the DP, note how it shoots and covers. DP shoots a lot like the base and clear - it has about the same consistency. Shooting DP is good practice for the "real thing." K36 shoots like mud, and is not representative of shooting "real" paint. You may find that you'll want to reduce the K36 down a little more than recommended in order to get it to blow through your gun and lay down nice. Give me a call if you need help.
_______

Lars in Denver
Chief Eng., Gold Crew
'85 Coupe, no MAF screen, K&N, Energy Suspension, Bilstein, glass top.
'71 GTO Judge 455 H.O. 4-spd (12.6 on slicks at sea level)
'68 GTO Convert 4-spd
'74 Ram Air Formula 455
'80 Ford Pinto (with factory 2-tone paint it's a collector!)

Sounds like a plan. The only advice I have is if in the process, you find an area or two that needs a little work, door jambs etc. stop and make it right! You've come so far, painting is the easy part, getting your car 100% ready for paint is the hard part. Just think how you'll feel down the road when people look over your car and can't find one flaw!!!! Show car or not, a flawless paint job will always be worth the time, especially if your planning on keeping the car a long time.

Your number of planned coats should be fine, just depends on how much color sanding you want to do and how much you want to sand the clear. When you here about show cars with 30 coats of clear, 20 coats were probably wet sanded off. . . lots of labor but the more elbow grease, the better the surface will look! Perfectly flat and clear with depth looks pretty awesome!

Keep us posted!

You can remind me about what I told you when I get ready to paint my car (years from now)!
_______

Meet Daphne

1974 two top car, L48, AC, PS/PB, TT & some temporary wheels, lots to come . . . Stay tuned!!

We can customize her, we have the technology. . .

I've been following your posts and am anxiously awaiting the outcome.

I'm gonna start shooting next weekend.

Terry

Here is the text right out of the PPG Product Information Sheet for K36:
"For maximum performance, treat areas with the appropriate PPG cleaning systems, and apply DP Epoxy Primer. Allow DP Epoxy Primer to dry 30 minutes when using DP402 Fast Catalyst and 1 hour when using DP401 Catalyst before applying K36.
"Mix K36 Primer Surfacer in a ratio of 5 parts K36; 1 part DT870 Reducer; 1 part K201. Stir thoroughly.
"Apply 2-3 wet coats using 50 pounds air pressure at the gun with 15 minutes dry time between coats.
"Pot life is 2 hours
"When using DELTRON (DAU) colors, K35 surface may be sealed with DP epoxy primer before topcoating. This will provide the best gloss and color uniformity."

Now, for the DP, the PPG info states:
"Used as a primer, blend two parts DPXXLF Primer to one part DP401LF or DP402LF (Fast).
"Apply 1 to 2 wet coats. Allow 10 to 15 minutes dry time between coats.
"NOTE: DP Epoxy Primer may be recoated any time up to 1 week. After 1 week, it must be claned with either DX330 or DX380, trhen scuffed with a medium/fine ScothBrite or sandpaper. Reclean with DX220, DX330, or DX380 before applying additional primer surfacers or topcoat colors.
"Used as a sealer, mix DP Epoxy Primerwith DP Catalyst and DT870 in a 2:1:1/2 ratio. Apply 1 wet coat. Allow DP/DP402 Sealer to dry 15 minutes minumum before applying topcoat. Allow DP/DP401 Sealer to dry 30 minutes minumum before applying topcoat."

As you see, you need the DT870. Don't take a shortcut now and start substituting cheap thinners instead of the PPG-Recommended stuff. Contact me if you need more info. The above statements are extracts out of the data sheets - not all the data. Theres' lots more info where that came from...
_______

Lars in Denver
Chief Eng., Gold Crew
'85 Coupe, no MAF screen, K&N, Energy Suspension, Bilstein, glass top.
'71 GTO Judge 455 H.O. 4-spd (12.6 on slicks at sea level)
'68 GTO Convert 4-spd
'74 Ram Air Formula 455
'80 Ford Pinto (with factory 2-tone paint it's a collector!)

You know it really bites that I can't even get any reducer tommorrow because it's Sunday and nothing's open. How frustrating.

I´m definitely no paint prep expert, so I need info myself!
Keep us posted on your efforts and especially the result!
_______

Frank the "Big Blocker"
68 L-89 Convertible 427/435/4-spd/ tuxedo black 900 / Medium Blue 414 - all Original!
77 T-Top 454 Custom/ VB&P Performance + suspension/ Mad Max - nothing Original!

There is a rule: "If in doubt - GO BIG !!!"

Are you using a fresh air respirator? I don't have one and wear a charcoal
filter mask but have read that this is not addequate with the newer paints.

_______



1980 L48 4-Speed
1980 L82 Auto
1979 L82 Auto
mark@soundsfine.com

You'll be able to get a good coat of epoxy on the entire car with about 2-3 quarts of mixed product (1-2 quarts of straight DP).

On the base and clear, you want to keep your film build-up as low as possible. Thick paint is not durable, and it will easily chip. Don't shoot 5 coats of clear (besides.. with the cost of clear, it would run you bankrupt...). A tack coat followed by two wet coats is more than enough. It goes on fairly thick, so you don't have to worry about sand-through if you have 2 wet coats applied.
_______

Lars in Denver
Chief Eng., Gold Crew
'85 Coupe, no MAF screen, K&N, Energy Suspension, Bilstein, glass top.
'71 GTO Judge 455 H.O. 4-spd (12.6 on slicks at sea level)
'68 GTO Convert 4-spd
'74 Ram Air Formula 455
'80 Ford Pinto (with factory 2-tone paint it's a collector!)

If you're using the DP as a sealer (on top of the K36 just prior to basecoat color), you reduce it with the DT by 25%.

The K36 can be mixed with or without the DT reducer. It is normally mixed in a ratio 5:1:1 K36, DT reducer, and 201 hardener. I usually add a little more DT in order to get the stuff to spray better: I find that the 5:1:1 ratio makes it go on a little dry, and it doesn't flow well through the gun. So I thin it a touch more. PPG claims that you can mix it as a "fast-build" primer by deleting the DT reducer. I have not been able to get this to flow through my paint gun, and I assume a pressure pot painting system would be required to shoot the stuff when it's this thick (it's like mud when it's not reduced...).

I got the PPG tech sheets from my PPG certification training classes. If you send me a fax number, I'll be glad to fax you the stuff I have on DP and K36 (as well as some other good reading).
_______

Lars in Denver
Chief Eng., Gold Crew
'85 Coupe, no MAF screen, K&N, Energy Suspension, Bilstein, glass top.
'71 GTO Judge 455 H.O. 4-spd (12.6 on slicks at sea level)
'68 GTO Convert 4-spd
'74 Ram Air Formula 455
'80 Ford Pinto (with factory 2-tone paint it's a collector!)

Here's what I did. I found a place that was open this morning and got some of the DT reducer from them. I shot my primers this evening, and everything went really well. I had a couple of minor bumps in the road, just minor ones, that were related to getting a hang of the gun. It's a Binks model 7 I think. I am happy with how it is going, and decided that my nervousness and tension was unnecessary. I was far more worried about how difficult it would be than I had to be.

I plan on trying to get it sanded out and straight and smooth in the next couple of weeks. I'm sure it'll go alright.

Lars, how does the base lay on? I mean, after shooting it is it smooth as glass, then the clear just shines it up, or does it have a texture of some kind to it? I should say ho is it supposed to lay on?

Again, sorry for the abruptness, and thank you to all who have helped me out to this point. I feel it's a major hurdle that I accomplished tonight, and now my fear of spraying paint is pretty well gone. Thanks guys.

Justin

quote:

---

Justin -
I'm at work, so I can't post to the Forum again.... You might
want to post
this e-mail up so everyone can see the answer to your last
questions...

First - good job laying down the primers! They spray on pretty
nice with a
little DT reduction, don't they? So you shot a little DP epoxy,
and
followed it up with a couple of wet coats of K36, right? Have
you dusted on
a light guidecoat, too?

On your basecoat:
It will spray and lay down very similar to the reduced DP. It
will go on
with a satin sheen to it - not full gloss. You should spray it
on wet
enough to make it smooth and flat - no texture at all (if you're
getting
texture, it's going on too dry) - but don't lay it on so thick
and wet that
you're trying to obtain a gloss finish. It will be semi-gloss
to satin when
you first shoot it, and then go down to a low-gloss almost flat
finish as
the solvents evaporate. But the surface of the paint should be
smooth and
flat. Are you shooting a metallic or a solid color? If you're
shooting a
metallic, I can give you a couple of technique pointers....

Lars

---

I told him I would post this so that those of you who may be following along can see. Sounds to me like the base should lay on just about like the DP did. I think I can handle that easy enough. Let me tell you all, I went up and aired the shop out this morning, (those fumes get pretty strong), and looked my primer job over a little better, it looks simply fabulous. There are 1 or 2 spots where I got some debris in it, that will need to be sanded out, but nothing big. Now it's on to some sanding.

Justin

You have me pumped!! I'm glad it's going well for you. I'll be ready to shoot the primer next Sunday and you have made me a little less anxious. Keep on giving updates.

Are you taking pictures as you go??

Terry

I'm always interested in an opposing view point.

In my studies, in preparation for painting my car I have read Lars's tech tips in the C3 section about 100 times. The following quote from the paper explains why the epoxy primer should be applied as a sealer.

"We need to be able to ?seal? the surface we?re working on. Fact is, a lot of our cars have had some questionable work done to them, and we don?t know exactly what materials have been applied. We need to be able to seal up whatever is already there to make sure it doesn?t adversely react with the new materials & paints we will be applying. The sealer should also provide a good adhesion base for the work we will be doing. Epoxies work well as sealers."

The PPG DP spec sheet has you add a 1/2 part of thinner if using the primer as a sealer.

If you still disagree with using the sealer first, I'd be very interested in the whys of your opinion.

A humble student
Terry

I'm sure it was an excessive amount of clear, but I was assured that my rookie sanding would take off more than a pro doing the same job so I erred to the heavy side.

The end results were fantastic.
_______

1978 L-82
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